just_n_examiner ([info]just_n_examiner) wrote,
@ 2008-09-22 22:22:00
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The 'Wearing Down Examiners' Fallacy
Even before the Continuation Rule Changes were promulgated, the subject of continuation reform has been a fairly hot topic. The high (or low) water mark was arguably this Lemley & Moore Paper; it is one of the most highly-cited papers on the subject.

One of the issues often cited in discussions of continuation reform is the so-called 'wearing down of examiners'. The theory is that by taking advantage of (or abusing) the unlimited continuations available to applicants, they can wring an undeserved allowance from an examiner simply by refusing to abandon the application.

The latest incarnation of this argument is in the June 2008 edition of the JPTOS, in an article (this is a link to an abstract only) by James W. Beard, a JD candidate at the University of California. Here's what the article has to say, although it's nothing that we haven't heard before:

"The danger posed by repeated continuation application lies in the nature of the incentive structure at the USPTO. Examiners are only rewarded for the initial response to a patent application and for finally disposing of an application, and get no additional incentive processing "a patent that cites 150 pieces of prior art and has 120 claims than a patent that cites two pieces of prior art and has three claims." [Comments by Mark Lemley at the Symposium, "Ideas Into Action: Implementing Reform of the Patent System", 19 Berkeley Tech L.J. 1053, 1112.] Disposing of an application requires granting a patent, and because an applicant can continually refile amended claims and continuation applications in response to an examiner's rejection or criticism, this creates a weakness in the process. Examiners have no incentive to spend additional time on more difficult applications; by the time it is on their desk they have already been rewarded for taking the case, and the only means to get it off their desk is to grant it. Therefore, if an applicant were sufficiently stubborn in filing continuation applications, the examiner's incentive would be to both spend less time on each successive continuation application and, finally, to grant the application even if the claims were overly broad. Effectively, the current incentive structure of the USPTO leads to a tendency to give decreased vigilance to successive applications. In sum, this allows a determined applicant to obtain a patent monopoly on something that would otherwise be unpatentable, resulting in significant costs to future inventors and potential infringers."

But wait, there's more...

"The proposed rule limiting applicants to two continuation applications and one request for continuing examination would have mitigated the most serious instances of applicants repeatedly filing continuation applications to wear down examiners, but it does not completely eliminate the issue. Somewhat counter-intuitively, there is almost no reduction in examination time for applications containing continuations relative to those unamended. [Stuart Weinberg, Inventor Sues U.S. Patent Office Over New Rules, Dow Jones Newswire, Aug. 23, 2007] There is therefore no incentive, in terms of efficiency, to having the same examiner prosecute each filing."

The author then goes on to posit that since there is no increased efficiency in having the same examiner assigned continuations, then having them assigned randomly might help with this whole 'wearing down examiners' thing.


Of course, it's all bull, and anyone who knows anything about how the count system actually works knows it. So let's look at a few of the author's points.


"Examiners are only rewarded for the initial response to a patent application and for finally disposing of an application..."

Wrong. Every time an applicant files an RCE (or a straight continuation), the examiner receives a count for the express abandonment, and another count for the first action after RCE. If they are doing their job right, the examiner will get a count for every single action they write (excluding advisory actions), the abandonment count acting as a 'deferred' count for the final rejection.


"[Examiners] get no additional incentive processing a patent that cites 150 pieces of prior art and has 120 claims than a patent that cites two pieces of prior art and has three claims."

Well, no argument there, but this doesn't really have anything to do with 'wearing down examiners' with excessive continuations. Different issue altogether.


"Disposing of an application requires granting a patent..."

Wrong. Abandonment and appeal will also dispose of an application.


"...by the time it is on their desk they have already been rewarded for taking the case, and the only means to get it off their desk is to grant it."

Wrong. I have to assume that by 'off their desk' the author actually means 'off their docket'. Well, yes, the only way that I can take unilateral action to get an application off my docket is to allow it. All of the other ways for applications to leave my docket [abandonment or appeal] are at the sole discretion of the applicant. Even so, as discussed above, there is nothing that I do that I will not get 'rewarded' for, assuming that I'm making good rejections that do not necessitate writing second non-finals.


"...if an applicant were sufficiently stubborn in filing continuation applications, the examiner's incentive would be to both spend less time on each successive continuation application and, finally, to grant the application even if the claims were overly broad."

Believe me, working under the requirements of the current production system, the examiner's incentive is always to spend as little time on an application as possible. Nonetheless, taking the time to find the best art up front and make a good first action is fully consistent with that goal, since that will minimize the time spent on subsequent actions, and will tend to shorten prosecution history by getting the issues focused sooner.


"Somewhat counter-intuitively, there is almost no reduction in examination time for applications containing continuations relative to those unamended...There is therefore no incentive, in terms of efficiency, to having the same examiner prosecute each filing."

Uh, yeah. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a copy of the original Dow Jones Newswire article, but I'm curious as to whether Mr. Weinberg spoke to any examiners before he made this assertion.

Speaking for myself, examining a continuation really does give me a serious head start. Usually, I'll have a good enough recollection of the parent application that it is much more efficient to work the child application. Even if it's been long enough that I don't recall the parent very well, a quick perusal of the file wrapper of the parent will bring me up to speed in no time at all.

---

I'm certainly not saying that having a discussion over current continuation practice is not a worthwhile exercise. Given the current backlog problems, it's probably something that should be looked at. But really, the debate should be limited to facts, and the tired old 'wearing down examiners' argument is pure fiction (to my experience).

Yet, like a bad penny, this argument has been used again and again in scholarly papers as evidence of the need for continuation reform. (It is somewhat reminiscent of that 97% allowance rate figure that Quillen and Webster came up with in 2002; the figure has been thoroughly debunked [even by the original authors!] yet the figure keeps rearing its head as evidence of the abuse of continuations.)

That particular fiction is especially problematic, though, and I would say detracts from the productiveness of the debate, because to those who have no real knowledge of how the count system works, it sounds very convincing.


But it's simply not true.


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Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-09-23 02:54 am UTC (link)
Are there any Examiners that engage in wearing down the applicant by continually making new grounds of rejections, even after an appeal is filed, and never allowing claims?

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-09-23 03:07 am UTC (link)
Which is why we need revised Appeal procedures. Just NOT the proposed procedures.

Once a Notice of Appeal is taken, that file should be removed from control of the Examiner and placed under the control of an Appeal Clerk.
This Appeal Clerk should be the one to issue Non-Compliance rejections, not the Examiner.
Also, the Examiner should only be able to uni-laterally allow a case.
The Examiner may make a motion for dismissal of the Appeal, but the Applicant should be able to argue against this. Either the Board or the Clerk should make the decision of whether or not the dismissal is allowed (not the Examiner).

I have gotten jerked around way too many times, by an Examiner playing hide-the-ball when they didn't want the case to go to Appeal and didn't want to allow the case. The "ball" being the Examiner's own shoddy work, not their argument.
The problem is when this happens the rejections get more and more bizarre.



Also, you should be able to petition for the removal of a case to a new Examiner. I have had the case where the Examiner was examining in bad faith. My boss (at the time) had pissed the Examiner off, and we started getting mutually exclusive rejections (i.e. I reject on A & Not A). I should have been able to protest that crap without fear of the Examiner using the licensing authority of the PTO to screw me personally.


Yes, "wear down the Examiner" is BS.
"Wear down the Applicant" is not.

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-09-23 04:02 pm UTC (link)
JD, this is your same old whine. You want the examiner to get it 100% right all the time but let the applicant have as many chances to change their position (i.e., change the scope, meaning, etc, of the claims) as they want to. Make it fair BOTH ways & you might get some support. Otherwise, forget it. (Yes, the reopen after appeal (brief or decision) is bad & needs to be curtailed. Your simplistic solution is not realistic nor is it workable in real life.)

Just to show ONE point of weakness/illogical in your "proposal". You & many others argue that you get a lot of "bad" rejections, as well as there being too many "bad" allowances out there. So, do YOU want YOUR client to get a "bad" rejection when there is good art out there & the examiner HAVE to allow the case because your rule left them no choice? I'd love to hear you to try to defend that one in court. "Your honor, the examiner didn't find the best art and because of my great new rule they couldn't apply the better art they found, so of course my client's patent is valid."

Can we all stop laughing now?

Bottom-line, there needs to be a REAL mechanism to limit the reopenings, but not completely prohibit them. If you prohibit them, what do you want the examiner to do if they DO find better art later after your appeal? Answer that. And NOT your usual B$ of just that "they should have found it sooner"! Ideally, yes they should, but unlike you , the rest of us are human. Examiners make mistakes and so do applicants & lawyers. There HAS to be some mechanism to limit the impact these mistakes have.

thanks,
LL

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-09-23 07:10 pm UTC (link)
JD,

I think you need to go back to remedial reading.
Like always, you take things out of context, or just assert a partial truth, and try to use that to further your position.

Let's take your points one at a time, shall we?

You say "Applicants don't gt [sic] to make as many changes as they want to..." WRONG. The applicant can (by filing RCEs or CON) change and amend the claims as often as they want to. To say otherwise is being completely disingenuous. The applicant, and their lawyer, are the ones that control starting the appeal process. Not the examiner or office. If you don't like the chances at appeal, you can file the RCE. If you think your claims are too broad or not clear enough, you can change the claims (RCE or you may even get an after-final entered). Under your plan, you still have that option. Currently, the examiner also has a similar option (often abused, not arguing that). Under your plan, the examiner has no choice. If they misinterpreted a limitation or misread a reference they would be stuck with no recourse.

You say "I have NEVER argued that there are too many, or any, "bad" allowances." Well for one, I didn't (ever) say anything about "too many allowances". That's Mooney's B$. And the FULL quote was "You & many others argue that you get a lot of "bad" rejections, as well as there being too many "bad" allowances out there." Again taking things out of context and using a partial quote (Much like someone saying that someone else said that they want to be in Iraq for 100 years. Just plain misrepresentation of the real quote.) The quote lumps you & the rest of the lawyers out there. And even if you haven't (I don't have the time to waste to check ALL of your quotes over the various bloigs you post to see if your assertion is right or not. I _doubt_ that you never said that there were NO "bad" allowances, but I will accept your assertion for now.)

You say "Your ONE weakness in my proposal is also bullsh!t". This is just your opinion and NOT based on fact. It is a matter of opinion. I pointed to a weakness in your proposal & you just said "No it's not." Very convincing :)

You say "The number of cases that are re-opened because "the examiner found better art" is painfully small" So, in other words you DO ADMIT that this does happen. And that your proposal does not account for this problem.

You say "The vast, vast majority of re-openings are the same old tired, "Oh sh!t, they called me on this one!!! I better make up something else and send it out so I don't have to sit in an appeal conference and be embarrassed when the useless GS-15's sitting in there with me ask, 'Are you serious with this POS?? Do you really think you can send that up to the Board??'" game that is being played over there."
Partly wrong here and not relevant to what I wrote. Most times in appeal conferences the TQAS or "appeal specialist" (many who ARE "useless", I'll give you that) have already decided to reopen before the conference or before they even read the action or response! It is so bad that some SPEs in some TCs will sign the pre-appeal sheet to go to appeal when the TQAS or "appeal specialist" because the SPEs know what a waste some of these people are. And you are right that many examiners don't want to have appeal conferences. However, many of these examiners don't want them because they know it will be a forgone conclusion as the TQAS or "appeal specialties" ARE a waste & will have them reopen even with a proverbial "Chinese copy" reference in a case. (And I am not speaking in theory. I know of both examiners and "specialists" that this applies to.)

You say "And your concern for what I'm going to tell a judge regarding the validity ... demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of what goes on in practice" And your response clearly demonstrates that you have no sense of humor and do not notice sarcasm when you read it.

That takes care of your responses. I'll follow with a response to the last couple paragraphs shortly.

thanks,

LL

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant - (Anonymous), 2008-09-23 07:23 pm UTC (Expand)

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-09-23 06:43 pm UTC (link)
"The rules need to be changed to require the examiner, when an appeal brief is filed, to either 1) issue an examiner's answer or 2) allow the application. No re-opening. No new grounds. Answer or allow. That's it."

An examiner in my art unit quit and I was docketed one of his cases that had an appeal brief filed. His rejection is essentially stretching a solid 103 primary reference into a 102 rejection. So I should either write an examiner's answer for a rejection I don't believe in or allow the laughably broad claims? Re-opening may be a problem, but your solution isn't the answer.

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-09-24 03:13 am UTC (link)
My experience with examiners coming out of the academy is that after eight months, they don't know the difference between 102 and 103, definitely don't know that they're supposed to provide motivations for 103s, and haven't been taught that they're actually supposed to find all the limitations in the claims.

So this is only going to get worse.

My experience with appeals specialists is different than that of LL. If the examiner and SPE agree that the case should be sent to the board, they will be happy to rubber-stamp that opinion before they have even looked at the case. What are the odds that they actually read the examiner's answer before signing?

--Examiner Y

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-09-29 10:57 pm UTC (link)
In my response you would petition/motion to the Clerk to pull the case out of Appeal.

You can still get the case back, you just have to ASK someone else to do it.
This (I'd hope) would limit the whipsawing that occurs as cases get appealed/re-opened/appealed/re-opened.

I wouldn't forbid you from re-opening a case, just force the Examiner to have someone else look at their work.

Plus, the same thing happens on the other side of the coin, especially with the new Continuation rules. I get handed another attorneys docket. Disagree with them but that guy used up all my RCEs/Cons. I wouldn't (under the new rules) get an excuse to make more RCEs/Cons.

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-10-01 12:59 am UTC (link)
John,

Do you know who decides 182 petitions?

-Gladly a Former Examiner (hereinafter "GFE")

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Re: Wearing Down the Applicant
(Anonymous)
2008-09-24 08:13 pm UTC (link)
If you hate the examiners so much, start writing better claims and applications. That way, more of the applications will go through as 1st action issues and the government wouldn't need all of these examiners to examine, and many of the bad ones you hate so much will be filtered out when the PTO downsizes. Darwinism at its best! You attorneys' jobs will be easier too: same flat charge, less work. How easy is that?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]judith_s
2008-09-23 03:22 am UTC (link)
I want to forward this to Lemley and his acolytes, including Ms. Moore. I do wish that the people who proposed patent policy would have at least minimal patent prosecution experience, on either side of the table. Instead, we get academics who seem to have no idea about the realities of the practice. And for some reason, the political structure of the PTO listens to these folks, and ignores the examiners and the patent prosecutors.

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The PTO is going to MBA students to find solutions as to how to reduce pendency.
(Anonymous)
2008-09-23 12:57 pm UTC (link)
Washington, D.C. - The George Washington University School of Business has partnered with the Department of Commerce’s United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) for its 2008 International Business Case Competition. The competition has brought together 18 teams of MBA students from around the world, each of whom will present proposed solutions to the pressing issues of patent pendency and backlog at the USPTO. =(Cont)=

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/speeches/08-10.htm

I recall "a winner" had been decided, but we (Examiners) have not heard a thing about the winning proposal.

Hmmm could it be a simple as. . . stop placing the new hires in the arts that are drying up and shove 'em over to where pendancy IS a problem?

What do I know?

~Not an MBA

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Re: The PTO is going to MBA students to find solutions as to how to reduce pendency.
(Anonymous)
2008-09-28 07:59 pm UTC (link)
Ahh, you (Examiners) weren't told about the "A Day in the Life of an Examiner" winning proposal?? Such a pity. Ms. Margaret Peterlin was such a smart Federalist Society member - too bad she knew nothing about patents.

From Hal Wegner ( http://www.ipfrontline.com/ ):

'The best solution that came out of this contest was to cure the "expectation gap" of prospective examiners. Peterlin's solution is to "have [Examiner] candidates participate in the [PTO's] 'A Day in the Life of an Examiner' program, but [she noted that] that finding funding for such a scheme would be a problem."'

Thankfully, folks on this blog did find funding for the program, and here is the result (the unwrapped candies represent the "allowance error rate"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wp3m1vg06Q

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Re: The PTO is going to MBA students to find solutions as to how to reduce pendency.
(Anonymous)
2008-10-31 11:34 am UTC (link)
oh god what a nightmare. i will venture to say that MBAs are the problem with PTO management.
here's an idea, don't train new examiners in a classroom when you can train them on the job. THE JOB IS RIGHT THERE! but they lock new recruits in the basement instead.

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Re: JPE, you're too kind
(Anonymous)
2008-09-23 04:03 pm UTC (link)
JD, now on THIS point, you are 100% right, as is JPE.

thanks,
LL

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(Anonymous)
2008-09-23 04:21 pm UTC (link)
Are the count and workflow procedures of the Office published somewhere? If not, they should be. It would save a lot of time and effort that is (unfortunately not currently) spent correcting both the academics and the media that continually convince laypersons that ridiculous things are needed for reasons that don't exist.

If I ever end up teaching patent prosecution decades down the line after my soon-to-be long and glorious career, I'm going to make it a point to dedicate an entire chapter of my class to internal USPTO procedures. A prosecutor can be made far more effective by knowing the strings behind the curtain.

-MM

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(Anonymous)
2008-09-24 01:06 am UTC (link)
Candyman - Check out MPEP 1705

Maybe you could have a whole "chapter" on how examiners should read the MPEP.

IPBloke

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(Anonymous)
2008-09-24 12:03 pm UTC (link)
MPEP 1705 doesn't tell the whole story. It completely neglects the workflow aspect of docket management. It also says nothing about how counts translate into production (i.e. how many counts an examiner needs per hour).

And clearly, no one in academia is even reading what IS there.

Sorry I didn't recall the MPEP section on the count procedures that I already know in greater detail than is written. I was focusing on chapters 700 and 2100 to make sure you get quality office actions.

-MM

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(Anonymous)
2008-09-24 02:37 pm UTC (link)
- Candyman

A quick Internet search shows that at least someone out there knows the story, check it out:

http://www.miyoshipat.co.jp/seminar/pdf/seminar051122.pdf

btw....does your elbow hurt from the nice pat on your back you gave yourself on making sure you give quality OA. You and JD could have a little party and rub Ben Gay on each others elbows.




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(Anonymous)
2008-09-24 07:16 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, I guess taking pride in one's job is a foreign concept to some...

-MM

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(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-09-24 07:59 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-09-24 08:40 pm UTC (Expand)
EU Patent Staff Go on Strike
(Anonymous)
2008-09-24 12:11 pm UTC (link)
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/23/1414226

"Last Friday, staff at the European Patent Office went on strike. They protested outside for several hours and issued a statement claiming that 'the organisation is decentralising and focusing on granting as many patents as possible to gain financially from fees generated.' They also declared this as being disastrous for innovation and that their campaign was not for better wages, but for better quality patents. Meanwhile, an article on it discusses the US's own approach to dealing with the increasing flood of patent applications: a community patent project to help identify prior art. It might sound like a grass-roots scheme, and maybe it is, but those roots include such patent behemoths as IBM. So it looks like on both sides of the Atlantic, some signs of sanity might be emerging in the patent world from those people right in the thick of it."
Note, this was a half-day strike, not ongoing.

=== The thread of comments is quite interesting as well. ====

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(Anonymous)
2008-09-27 03:58 pm UTC (link)
Examiner worn down some from attorney's but even more by pto miss management.

See attrition/separation rates and financial balance sheet.

Furloughs at government agencies including PTO to start wed?

(Reply to this)


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